安德拉什·希夫，是目前世界上最优秀的钢琴家之一。他在上周六自己60岁生日音乐会上演奏了对演奏者技艺要求很高的巴赫的戈德堡变奏曲和贝多芬的Diabelli变奏曲。早些时候，他告诉英国广播公司的蒂姆·弗兰克，为什么他要在伦敦举办这个音乐会，而不是在他的母国匈牙利。

在我刚开始的采访他的时刻，席夫使我吃了一惊。他有力地，坚定地和我握手。

18个月前，在2012年环法自行车大赛的前夜，我去马略卡岛训练营采访英国选手手布拉德利威金斯。新闻官就告诫不要随意和威金斯握手。天空队是不会冒险让我握这双将带领英国队获胜的手的。

当时，虽然我不能判断威金斯的队友们是否太当心和太敏感，但是这个记忆也下意识地表达在我将对世界上最备受推崇的钢琴家之一进行的采访中了。

希夫是从他在伦敦中心家里步行至英国广播公司的总部的。他戴着帽子，穿着件黑色长大衣，有着并不高大，也不引人注意的身段。当他从楼上走进楼下的主播音室时，通过高大的玻璃看到播音控制室的繁忙的景象，他不由自主地流露出无瑕的好奇和惊喜。

希夫被形容为二十世纪上半叶自作曲家贝拉·巴托克和柯达伊·佐尔坦以来匈牙利最伟大的音乐家。但是这位艺术家和他的祖国并无任何联系。

“不幸的是，目前匈牙利的情况并不是很好，说得客气一点， ”希夫说。 “我是那里的政治局势的强烈的反对者。”

席夫一直直言不讳地批评欧尔班·维克托的右倾的政府，以及它与匈牙利第三大政党，及带有明显地排外和反犹主义倾向的所谓“为了一个更好的匈牙利”运动的关系。他又进一步指出。

“使我感到不安的不仅仅是政府， ”他边说边歉然一笑。这位非常严肃的音乐家常常以这种徴笑来打断他的语句。 “使我感到更不安的是普通的民众。当然，并不是全部的民众。他们缺乏勇气，害怕公开地表达他们直实的想法。 ”

希夫援引前不久在布达佩斯市中心竖立的海军上将霍尔蒂米克洛什，匈牙利的战时领袖的雕像。希夫说，这位将军不是政治家，而是“战犯” 。他泡制了反犹太人的法律并且把五十万犹太人送至纳粹死亡集中营。为这样的人立碑是很可耻的。

席夫轻微一笑，接着又说，＂你问我什么不在那里举办我60岁生日音乐会。事实上我根本不去那个国家，即使作为一个普通的个人。＂

有人认为那些个对匈牙利右派政府批评的人是为了经济上得到好处。对此言论，席夫不屑一顾，他只是依据现实而提出他的批评。

“有人威胁我，如果我回到匈牙利，他们将切断我的双手。我并不愿意冒这种身体和精神上可能被攻击的险。＂

席夫说，那些“他们”是指网上的无名的人。他表示，对这些人，他并无特殊的愤恨和私仇。但这种行为不得不引起关注。 “他们没有意识到这一点，现在是21世纪，是在欧洲。他们将回到最黑暗的中世纪。 ”

即使没有这种威胁，希夫说，他会发现很难在匈牙利演出。艺术与政治不能解开。什么样的听众对于演奏者来说是很重要的。＂我们没有这么天真。＂

他无法理解纳粹头子怎么会一面犯下令人可怕的罪行，然而一转身在听＂听贝多芬弦乐四重奏哭泣像孩子一样” 。

希夫当然对他演奏会的观众寄予厚望。若干年前，他突然中止演奏戈德堡变奏曲从而来使得皇家节日音乐厅中的听众安静下来。

现在，在我们的电台狭窄的演播室，钢琴家稍稍移动了他的椅子，显得有点尴尬。 “我记得那个事情，我现在感到非常抱歉。我要强调是我们不是冷血无情的机器。 ”

而今，他情愿让现场表演成为一个“美好的经历” ： “当我们相处在一起这两个小时或三个小时，我们或许能以某种方式改变世界使它成为一个更美好的地方。 ”

这个就是他的演奏吸引我们之处。席夫如同布伦德尔，另一位从中欧移民至伦敦的钢琴家，被誉为当代最伟大的音乐思想家之一。

几年前，席夫发表了一系列关于贝多芬的32首钢琴奏鸣曲的演讲。这些演讲至今仍然是公共服务广播音乐的试金石。

现在，席夫巳有六十高龄。但是他并不认为他得出了有关一此重要作品的新的知识或哲理上的结论。

“当然，现在的想法非常不同了，但不是故意如此。我并没有改变我对这种音乐或其他任何音乐的看法。但生活和时间都改变了我。这不是一种成就。 ”他又笑着说。

“这是一个事实。你在生活中经历了不同的事情。你有时得面对悲剧，你越来越接近死亡，这是指日可待的现实。 ”

尽管如此，席夫就如同很多钢琴家一样。当他们感到他们并没有准备好时，他们并不急躁，而且是不会试图去演奏贝多芬的迪亚贝利（Diabelli）变奏曲的。这部被布伦德尔所称之为“最伟大的钢琴作品”。

希夫说，他一直等到他五十岁才演奏贝多芬32首奏鸣曲。只有在完整地演奏了贝多芬的奏鸣曲二十次后，他才开始演奏贝多芬这部最后的钢琴作品。

“迪亚贝利变奏曲是贝多芬作品中最精彩，最丰富多彩的一部作品。其某些部分带有高度的戏剧性。其他部分又是非常温柔，抒情，它充满机智和高度的幽默。而有的时候却又是具有非常深刻的哲理和抽象的。我无法理解二十多岁钢琴家可演奏这一作品。他们是不可能真正领会的。＂

但在钢琴家生命的某个点上，他必须作出种权衡。虽然这位钢琴家的洞察力和经验会随着时间增长，但最终他的身体状况也将恶化。

我有一次把这个观点告诉六十五岁的丹尼尔·巴伦博伊姆，他迅速地，完全地否定了我的看法。

同时，席夫并不是说不接触这些作品。他在三十岁时开始学习贝多芬的技术要求非常高的Hammerklavier奏鸣曲。

“三十年来，我一直在了解它。现在我开始知道它是什么，尽管还相距甚远， ”他说。

“但是，当我能够真正理解它时，也许要十年的时间，但那时或许我可能会没有这个体力来演奏了。 ”

席夫这个陈述中并没有什么悲伤或退却的念头，他只是表达了一个现实。他以他短暂的笑声打断了他的陈述。事实上，他充满了希望。由于这种现实，他可能要更谨慎地选择他的保留节目。他回忆到奥地利钢琴家阿图尔·施纳贝尔的名言，莫扎特的奏鸣曲＂对孩子来说太容易了，对成人来说又太难了” 。

“当你过了80 ，你可以非常完美地演奏莫扎特，这是因为你回到童年时代，但你具备一个老人的智慧。 ”

下面我把英文也附上。

One of the world's greatest pianists, Andras Schiff, played his 60th birthday concert on Saturday - a hugely demanding programme of the Goldberg Variations by Bach and Beethoven's Diabelli Variations. Earlier he told the BBC's Tim Franks why he gave the performance in London - and not in his homeland, Hungary.

Andras Schiff takes me aback even before our interview begins: he shakes my hand, firmly.

About 18 months ago, on the eve of the 2012 Tour de France, I was warned by a press officer not even to proffer my hand to Bradley Wiggins, before an interview at his Majorca training camp. Team Sky simply could not risk me bruising the hands that would grip the handlebars that would steer Britain to its first ever Tour victory.

At the time, I could not work out whether Wiggins' entourage was being utterly precious or utterly reasonable. But I had subconsciously carried the memory of that meeting to my interview with one of the world's most highly regarded pianists.

Schiff has walked to BBC headquarters by himself, from his home in central London - a small, unobtrusive figure in a hat and long black coat. As he gazes around the controlled frenzy of the office where radio news programmes are made, and down the glass shaft into the main newsroom below, he exudes an innocent interest, almost delight.

Schiff has been described as the greatest musician Hungary has produced since the composers Bela Bartok and Zoltan Kodaly, in the first half of the 20th Century. But between the artist and his homeland there has been a rupture.

"Unfortunately, things in Hungary are not very good, to put it mildly," Schiff says. "I'm a great opponent of the political situation there now."

He has been outspoken in his criticism of the right-of-centre government of Viktor Orban, and its relationship with the third largest political party, the expressly xenophobic and anti-Semitic Jobbik "Movement For a Better Hungary". Now, though, Andras Schiff goes further.

"It's not just the government that disturbs me," he says, with a small, apologetic laugh, that interrupts many of the sentences uttered by this profoundly serious musician. "It's the people that disturb me. Not all of them. There's very little civilian courage. People are scared to speak up."

Schiff cites the statue just erected in the centre of Budapest of Admiral Miklos Horthy, Hungary's wartime leader. He was, says Schiff, not a statesman, but "a war criminal", responsible for anti-Jewish laws, and overseeing the deportation of half a million Jews to Nazi death camps. Erecting monuments to the man is, he says, despicable.

"As to your question why I'm not playing my 60th birthday concert there," he says, with another laugh, "I don't even set foot in the country, not even as a private person."

There is a counter-argument - that those opponents of the government, and the far-right, might draw succour from the appearance, in their country, of such a famous critic. Schiff is unapologetic, and matter-of-fact.

"I have been threatened that if I return to Hungary, they will cut off both of my hands. I don't want to risk physical and mental assault."

Those "they" are nameless people on the internet, he says. But he insists he is not speaking out of bitterness or hatred. Rather concern. "They don't realise it. But this the 21st Century and this is Europe. They are going back to the darkest Middle Ages."

Even without that threat, Schiff says he would find it difficult to play in Hungary. Art and politics cannot be disentangled. The audience matters to performers. "We are not naive," he says.

He cannot understand how senior Nazis could commit terrible crimes, and in the next moment, "listen to Beethoven string quartets and weep like children".
Schiff certainly has high expectations of his concert audiences. I recall watching him, some years ago, halting a performance of the Goldberg Variations to shush a noisy Royal Festival Hall.

Now, in our small radio studio, the pianist shifts in his chair, and looks embarrassed. "I remember this instance, and I'm terribly sorry about it now. I have to emphasise we're not machines."

He would rather dwell on the "wonderful experience" of live performance: "Together for those two hours or three hours, we can somehow change the world in to a better place."

Which brings us to performance now. Schiff has a reputation, along with Alfred Brendel - another central European emigre pianist who moved to London - for being one of the great musical thinkers of our time.

Some years ago Schiff gave a series of lectures on Beethoven's 32 piano sonatas, which remain a touchstone of public service broadcasting on music.

Now, as he turns 60, he brushes off the idea that he has reached a new intellectual or philosophical conclusion about key works.

"Of course, it's very different now. But not deliberately so. I have not changed my view on this music or any music. But life and time have changed me. It's not an achievement." Again he laughs.

"It's a fact. You experience things. You are confronted by tragedies sometimes. You are getting closer to death. It's around the corner."

He does display impatience, though, with pianists who attempt what Brendel calls "the greatest of all piano works", Beethoven's Diabelli Variations, before they are ready.

Schiff says he waited until he was 50 before he played the 32 Beethoven sonatas. And he only moved on to Beethoven's final piano work, the Diabelli, after performing 20 complete cycles of the composer's sonatas.

"It's the most wonderful, the most colourful composition Beethoven ever wrote. Parts of it are highly dramatic. Others are very tender and lyrical. It's full of wit and hilarious humour. And some of it is very deeply philosophical and metaphysical. I cannot understand pianists who are 20 years old and they immediately play this piece. It cannot be serious."

But there must, at some point, be a trade-off. The pianist's insight and experience may grow with time, but eventually physical capabilities will wane.

I once put the point to Daniel Barenboim, as he turned 65. His whipcrack response suggested he rejected the idea outright.

Schiff, in contrast, is willing to engage. He cites Beethoven's preposterously demanding Hammerklavier sonata - a piece, Schiff says, he learned when he was 30.
"I have lived with it for 30 years, and I am beginning to know what it is about. I am still far away," he says.

"But when I will really understand it, maybe in 10 years' time, then I will probably be physically too weak to play it."

There is nothing sad or resigned about the statement. Schiff delivers it matter-of-factly, punctuated by his brief, semiquaver laugh. Indeed, he speaks in hope. Yes, he may have to choose his repertoire more carefully. But he recalls the famous aphorism of the Austrian pianist Artur Schnabel, that Mozart's sonatas are "too easy for children, too difficult for adults".

"When you are over 80, you can play wonderfully Mozart again. Because you are coming back to your childhood, with the wisdom of an old man."

这是席夫关于Beethoven 32首奏鸣曲的演讲。

席夫的演讲

连续二年在国家大剧院观看希夫的演奏会——他情愿让现场表演成为一个“美好的经历” ： “当我们相处在一起这两个小时或三个小时，我们或许能以某种方式改变世界使它成为一个更美好的地方。 ”

对席夫在ECM录制的那套贝多芬钢琴奏鸣曲很感兴趣，有谁听过吗？

对席夫在ECM录制的那套贝多芬钢琴奏鸣曲很感兴趣，有谁听过吗？
甲米 发表于 2013-12-25 11:41

好象只有单张的，等着打包。

回复 Jwang 的帖子


    今年来出了好几套贝多芬的钢琴奏鸣曲，想着收一套，不知收谁的？

我个人觉得迪亚贝利主题变奏曲是贝多芬比较费解的一部作品，可能与出版商那个圆舞曲主题有关系，这个圆舞曲主题有可能不太高明。
巴赫的《音乐的奉献》我也有类似感觉，可能跟国王给的主题有关。
一部作品，主题很重要，后面部分的展开和发展与主题密切相关。贝多芬和巴赫都是很擅长发展主题的音乐家。因为主题是别人出的，可能就限制了贝多芬或巴赫对主题的发展。

他无法理解纳粹头子怎么会一面犯下令人可怕的罪行，然而一转身在听＂听贝多芬弦乐四重奏哭泣像孩子一样” 。


“但是，当我能够真正理解它时，也许要十年的时间，但那时或许我可能会没有这个体力来演奏了。 ”

莫扎特的奏鸣曲＂对孩子来说太容易了，对成人来说又太难了” 。

“当你过了80 ，你可以非常完美地演奏莫扎特，这是因为你回到童年时代，但你具备一个老人的智慧。 ”

以上三句感触颇多！被戳中了！

我个人觉得迪亚贝利主题变奏曲是贝多芬比较费解的一部作品，可能与出版商那个圆舞曲主题有关系，这个圆舞曲 ...
shinelb 发表于 2013-12-26 19:36

这是有见解的发言。赞！！！